Introduction
New York Times Justice Dept. reporter Glenn Thrush, Washington Post congressional investigation reporter Jackie Alemany, and former top official in the Justice Department’s National Security Division Mary McCord discuss new reporting that Trump rejected efforts to avoid indictment.
» Subscribe to MSNBC: on.msnbc.com/SubscribeTomsnbc
Follow MSNBC Show Blogs
MaddowBlog: www.msnbc.com/maddowblog
ReidOut Blog: www.msnbc.com/reidoutblog
MSNBC delivers breaking news, in-depth analysis of politics headlines, as well as commentary and informed perspectives. Find video clips and segments from The Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, The Beat with Ari Melber, Deadline: White House, The ReidOut, All In, Last Word, 11th Hour, and Alex Wagner who brings her breadth of reporting experience to MSNBC primetime. Watch “Alex Wagner Tonight” Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern.
Connect with MSNBC Online
Visit msnbc.com: on.msnbc.com/Readmsnbc
Subscribe to the MSNBC Daily Newsletter: MSNBC.com/NewslettersYouTube
Find MSNBC on Facebook: on.msnbc.com/Likemsnbc
Follow MSNBC on Twitter: on.msnbc.com/Followmsnbc
Follow MSNBC on Instagram: on.msnbc.com/Instamsnbc
#Trump #NYT #GOP
Content
A FORMER, JUSTICE, DEPARTMENT, PROSECUTOR, AND, FORMER, SENIOR, MEMBER, ROBERT, MUELLER, SPECIAL, COUNSEL, INVESTIGATION., GLEN, AND, JACKIE, THANK, YOU, SO, MUCH, FOR, JOINING, US., YOUR, COVERAGE, OF, THE, LAST, 72 HOURS, HAS, BEEN, NOTHING, SHORT, OF, EXTRAORDINARY., GLEN, LET, ME, START, WITH, YOU, AND, SOME, OF, "THE, TIMES", REPORTING., ISN't, THIS, ALWAYS, THE, CASE, FOR, TRUMP?, HE, WAS, TRYING, TO, RUN, THE, COUNTRY, WHILE, ALL, OF, HIS, SENIOR, ADVISERS, WERE, GOING, IN, AND, OUT, OF, THE, MUELLER, TEAM's, INVESTIGATIVE, OFFICES, AND, HEADQUARTERS., NOW, HE's, TRYING, TO, RUN, FOR, PRESIDENT, A, THIRD, TIME, AND, MOST, OF, THE, PEOPLE, THAT, SURROUND, HIM, ARE, EITHER, CODEFENDANTS, OR, WITNESSES, AGAINST, HIM., >>, WELL, WHAT, WAS, REALLY, INTERESTING, IS, AT, THE, ARRAIGNMENT, I, WAS, IN, THE, COURTROOM, IN, MIAMI, ON, TUESDAY, AND, THE, ONE, THING, THAT, BOTH, THE, DEFENSE, AND, PROSECUTION, COULD, AGREE, ON, IS, THAT, THEY, DID, NOT, WANT, AS, A, PRECONDITION, OF, HIS, BOND, OF, HIS, BEING, RELEASED, FROM, THE, COURT, TO, HAVE, ANY, RESTRICTIONS, ON, WHO, HE, COULD, REALLY, COMMUNICATE, WITH., IT, WAS, THIS, SORT, OF, FILL, IN, JUDGE, JUDGE, JONATHAN, GOODMAN, WHO, REALLY, GOT, KIND, OF, IRKED, AT, THE, LACK, OF, RESTRICTIONS, ON, TRUMP, PARTICULARLY, GIVEN, THESE, ACCUSATIONS, OF, POTENTIAL, WITNESS, TAMPERING, AND, INSISTED, REALLY, OVER, THE, OBJECTION, OF, JACK, SMITH's --.
One.
Of.
Jack, SMITH's, TOP, LIEUTENANTS, TO, IMPOSE, RESTRICTIONS, ON, ANY, OF, THE, WITNESSES, INCLUDING, WALT, NAUTA, TO, DISCUSS, THE, CASE, WITH, TRUMP, UNLESS, IT, WAS, THROUGH, COUNSEL., IT, WAS, REALLY, EXTRAORDINARY, BECAUSE, JACK, SMIKT, AND, HIS, TEAM, KNOWING, FULL, WELL, THAT, DONALD, TRUMP, IS, NOT, ONE, KNOWN, FOR, RESPECTING, BOUNDARIES, REALLY, UNDERSTOOD, HOW, DANGEROUS, THIS, COULD, BE., THEY, WANT, TO, PROSECUTE, TRUMP, FOR, WHAT, HAS, HAPPENED., THEY, DON't, NECESSARILY, WANT, TO, HAVE, THIS, COMPLICATED, BY.
Having --.
Revisiting.
The.
Conditions, OF, DONALD, TRUMP, BEING, RELEASED, FROM, CUSTODY., >>, IT's, SUCH, AN, INTERESTING, CONUNDRUM, FOR, A, NORMAL, PERSON., WE, KNOW, HE's.
Totally --.
He's NOT.
--.
Nothing.
Gives.
Him.
Pause., I, MEAN, WHAT, WE, CALL, WITNESS, TAMPERING, HE, CALLS, JUST, DOING, BUSINESS., I, MEAN, HOW, DO, HIS, LAWYERS, BAKE, IN, SORT, OF, HOW, HE, ROLLS, WITH, THE, DEFENSE, THEY're, GOING, TO, TRY, TO, MOUNT, GLENN?, >>, WELL, I, THINK, THERE's, SORT, OF, A, THRESHOLD, QUESTION, HERE., WHO, ARE, THOSE, LAWYERS, GOING, TO, BE?, AGAIN, ONE, OF, THE, MOST, CONSEQUENTIAL, MOMENTS, OF, THAT, ARRAIGNMENT, WAS, WHEN, CHRISTOPHER, KISE, AND, TOM, BLANCHE, THE, TWO, PEOPLE, REPRESENTING, HIM, IN, COURT, SAID, THEY, INTENDED, TO, BE, PERMANENT, COUNSEL., THAT, KIND, OF, CAME, AS, NEWS, TO, ALL, OF, US, BECAUSE, IN, THE, PRIOR.
48 HOURS WE've, BEEN, HEARING, ALL, THESE, RUMORS, ABOUT, TRUMP, APPEALING, TO, OTHER, FLORIDA, BASED, LAWYERS, WHO, MIGHT, BE, HIS, COUNSEL, AND, I, DON't, THINK, IT's, BEYOND, THE, REALM, OF, POSSIBILITY, THAT, THERE, WILL, BE, NEW, LAWYERS, INTRODUCED., BUT, YEAH, THIS, IS, AN, INCREDIBLY.
Difficult --.
An.
Incredibly.
Difficult JOB, FOR, ANY, ATTORNEY, REPRESENTING, HIM, AND, IT's, REALLY, COMPOUNDED, BY, THE, FACT, THAT, BORIS, EPSTEIN, WHO, IS, SORT, OF, PLAYING, THIS, SHADOWY, ROLE, AS, TRUMP's, LEGAL, COUNSEL, POLITICAL, CONSIGLIERE, AND, PUBLIC, RELATIONS, PERSON, IS, SOMEONE, WHO, SEEMS, TO, BE, HAVING, SIGNIFICANT, CONFLICTS, WITH, THE, PREVIOUS, LEGAL, TEAM., I, MEAN, JAMES, TRUSTY, QUIT, ROWELY, QUIT., NO, ONE, SEEMS, TO, BE, ABLE, TO, GET, ALONG, WITH, BORIS., I, THINK, THE, QUESTION, IS, AND, WE're, TALKING, ABOUT, SIGNIFICANT, JAIL, TIME, ARE, THEY, STILL, GOING, TO, HAVE, TO, DEAL, WITH, THE, COMPLICATED, FACTOR, OF, EPSTEIN, TALKING, TO, THE, BOSS, AND, UNDERCUTTING, THEM, EVER, STEP, OF, THE, WAY?, >>, IT's, INTERESTING, BORIS, HAS, THE, ROLE, RUDY, PLAYED, SORT, OF, AROUND, THE, MUELLER, PROBES, AND, IMPEACHMENT, TRIALS., YOU, HAVE, SOME, AMAZING, REPORTING, THOUGH, ON, THIS, DYNAMIC., I, MEAN, CHRIS, KISE, HAS, ALREADY, BEEN, DISSED, IN, TERMS, OF, THE, LEGAL, COUNSEL, HE, PROVIDED, COUNSEL, THAT, MAY, HAVE, AVOIDED, INDICTMENT, ALL, TOGETHER, IN, FAVOR, OF, ONE, OF, TRUMP's, KNOWN, PEN, PALS, THAT, GAVE, HIM, ADVICE, ON, JANUARY, 6th, SHOULD, HE, BE, CHARGED, THERE., THEY, ALSO, HAVE, A, TIE, TO, PUTTING, CRIMINAL, EXPOSURE, FOR, DONALD, TRUMP, INTO, MOTION., >>, YEAH, NICOLLE, I, HAVE, TO, GIVE, MY, COLLEAGUE, JOSH, DOSSY, A, MAJOR, SHOUT, OUT., HE, TOOK, THE, LEAD, ON, THIS, PIECE, AND, MANAGED, TO, BYLINE, THREE, DIFFERENT, PIECES, YESTERDAY, ON, THIS, MAR-A-LAGO, DOCUMENTS, CASE, ALONE., BUT, IT.
Is --.
There.
Is.
A, CONSISTENT, THREAD, HERE, WHICH, IS, WHEN, TRUMP, LISTENS, TO, ADVICE, FROM, THE, NON-LAWYERS, AND, THE, POLITICAL, ANIMALS, IN, THE, ROOM, PEOPLE, LIKE, TOM, FINTON, AND, BORIS, EPSTEIN., TOM, WHO's, HEAD, OF, JUDICIAL, WATCH, AND, NOT, A, LAWYER, AND, EPSTEIN, WHO, IS, A, LAWYER, BUT, HAS, NEVER, ACTUALLY, TRIED, A, CASE, IF, YOU, ASK, THE, OTHER, LAWYERS, ON, TRUMP's, LEGAL, TEAM, AND, WHOM, THEY, ALL, HAVE, VEHEMENTLY, DISAGREED, WITH, WHEN, IT, COMES, TO, BORIS', LEGAL, STRATEGY., HE, HAS, ENDED, UP, IN, THESE, PREDICAMENTS, AND, NOW, HE's, FACING, INDICTMENTS, ON, TWO, DIFFERENT, CASES, AND, THESE, MOST, RECENT, FEDERAL, CHARGES., BUT, IN, OUR, STORY, CHRISTOPHER, KISE, WHO, WAS, BROUGHT, IN, TO, BECOME.
This --.
To.
Professionalize.
The, OPERATION, HE, WAS, QUICKLY, SIDE, LINED, AFTER, THIS, APPROACH, THAT, HE, PRESENTED, OF, TRYING, TO, GO, TO, THE, DOJ, WITH, A, MORE, COOPERATIVE, STANCE, AND, RESOLVING, THE, SITUATION, WAS, REJECTED, BY, TRUMP., AND, THAT, SHOULDN't, REALLY, COME, AS, A, SURPRISE, TO, THOSE, WHO, HAVE, COVERED, HIM, FOR, THE, LAST, EIGHT, YEARS., THIS, IS, SOMEONE, WHO, HAS, CONSISTENTLY, DOUBLED, DOWN, IN.
His --.
And.
Continued.
To ENGAGE, IN, ILLEGAL, OR, POTENTIALLY, ILLEGAL, ACTIVITY, SHOOING, LOTS, OF, LEGAL, VOICES, AROUND, HIM, AT, ALL, TIMES, REALLY, NO, MATTER, THE, TOPIC, HE's, FACED, IN, WHEN, HE's, IN, THE, WHITE, HOUSE, OR, NOW, POST-PRESIDENCY., BUT, IT, DOES, SHOW, HE, POTENTIALLY, MISSED, THE, BOAT., AND, IF, YOU're, LOOKING, AT, THE, CHARGES, MORE, BROADLY, SPEAKING, THERE, IS, A, VERY, STARK, DELINEATION, OF, THE, FORMER, PRESIDENT, FACING, CHARGES, ON, ALL, OF, THE, ITEMS, THAT, HE, REFUSED, TO, GET, BACK, TO, THE, NATIONAL, ARCHIVES, OF, THE, ONES, HE, DID, GIVE, BACK, AND, DID, ULTIMATELY, INITIALLY, COMPLY, WITH, FROM, HIS, FIRST, LAWYER, ALL, THE, WAY, BACK, LAST, FEBRUARY, OF, 2022, HE, WAS, NOT, CHARGED, WITH, ANYTHING., >>, WELL, IT's, SUCH, AN, IMPORTANT, POINT., MARY, McCORD, IS, ALSO, ALONG, WITH, US., SHE's, A, FORMER, TOP, OFFICIAL, IN, THE, JUSTICE, DEPARTMENT's, NATIONAL, SECURITY, DIVISION., MARY, IT's, AN, IMPORTANT, SORT, OF, SMALL, UNDERSTATED, POINT, IN, THE, ARTICLE, BUT, IT, DRIVES, HOME, THE, FACT, THAT, IF, TRUMP, SHOULD, READ, IT, HE, MIGHT, SEE, THAT, THE, ADVICE, HE, GOT, FROM, LAWYERS, KEPT, HIM, FROM, BEING, CHARGED, ON, THE, DOCUMENTS, THAT, HE, FOLLOWED, THEIR, ADVICE, ABOUT, THE, THINGS, THAT, HE, GAVE, BACK., THAT's, NOT, WHAT, DOJ, CAME, FOR., THEY, DIDN't COME, FOR, THINGS, THAT, WERE, MISHANDLED, WHICH, A, POTENTIAL, CRIME, INITIALLY, NOT, GIVEN, BACK, TO, NARA, WHICH, COULD, HAVE, BEEN, A, POTENTIAL, CRIME., THIS, ISN't, ACCURATE, FROM, A, LEGAL, STANDPOINT, BUT, THEY, SEEMED, TO, HAVE, TAKEN, ALL's, WELL, THAT, ENDS, WELL, AND, THE, THINGS, HE's, CHARGED, FOR, ARE, THINGS, WE, STILL, DON't, KNOW, FOR, SURE, ARE, BACK, IN, THE, POSSESSION, OF, THE, FEDERAL, GOVERNMENT., WHAT, DO, YOU, MAKE, OF, "THE, TIMES", AND, "THE, POST", PRETTY, AMAZING, STORY, THAT's, HAPPENING, OVER, AND, OVER, AGAIN., TRUMP's, LAWYER, ROULETTE, HAPPENS, EVERY, TIME, TRUMP's, UNDER, SCRUTINY, AND, HERE, WE, GO, AGAIN., >>, YES, AND, I, THINK, THE, APPROACH, WE've, NOW, READ, ABOUT, THAT, CHRIS, KISE, WANTED, TO, TAKE, THAT's, THE, APPROACH, I, WOULD, HAVE, EXPECTED, REALLY, OF, ANY, COMPETENT, ATTORNEY, WHO, WAS, TRYING, TO, DO, THE, BEST, FOR, HIS, CLIENT., HE, JUST, HAD, A, CLIENT, WHO, JUST, DOESN't, DOES, NOT, WANT, TO, LISTEN, TO, HIS, ATTORNEY's, ADVICE, WHEN, IT's, NOT, CONSISTENT, WITH, WHATEVER, HE, PERSONALLY, FEELS, IS, THE, RIGHT, THING, TO, DO., AND, I, THINK, THAT's, YOU, KNOW, REALLY, COMING, BACK, TO, HARM, HIM, IN, THIS, INSTANCE., AND, IT's, INTERESTING, BECAUSE, MR., TRUMP, KEEPS, TALKING, ABOUT, THIS, IS, JUST, ABOUT, THE, PRESIDENTIAL, RECORDS ACT, AND, UNDER, THE, PRESIDENTIAL, RECORDS, ACT, I, HAD, THE, AUTHORITY, TO, TAKE, ALL, OF, THESE, RECORDS., I, HAVE, THE, AUTHORITY, TO, DECIDE, WHAT's, MINE, WHAT's, PERSONAL, AND, WHAT's, NOT., AND, THERE's, A, COUPLE, OF, PROBLEM., ONE, PROBLEM, WITH, THAT, IS, HE's, JUST, LEGALLY, WRONG., THE, PRESIDENTIAL, RECORDS, ACT, EXPLICITLY, BY, STATUTE, MADE, CLEAR, THAT, ANY, DOCUMENTS, OR, INFORMATION, THAT, REFER, TO, OFFICIAL, BUSINESS, OF, THE, PRESIDENT, ARE, NOT, THE, PRESIDENT's, PERSONAL, RECORDS., THEY're, NOT, THE, FORMER, PRESIDENT's, PERSONAL, RECORDS., THEY, ARE, THE, RECORDS, OF, THE, GOVERNMENT., AND, IT's, THE, ARCHIVES, WHO, WILL, DECIDE, IS, THERE, ANYTHING, IN, THOSE, BOXES, THAT, IS, PURELY, PERSONAL, AND, WE'll, SEND, IT, BACK., SO, HE, RELIES, ON, THIS, BUT, THE, INTERESTING, THING, AND, TO, POINT, YOU, JUST, RAISED, NICOLLE, WAS, EVEN, VIOLATIONS, OF, YOU, KNOW, FEDERAL, RECORDS, LIKE, TAKING, FEDERAL, RECORDS, THAT, AREN't, CLASSIFIED, CAN, VIOLATE, ANOTHER, PROVISION, OF, LAW., BUT, THE, GOVERNMENT, WASN't, INTERESTED, IN, THAT., THE, GOVERNMENT, GOT, INVOLVED, IN, THIS, TO, BEGIN, WITH, BECAUSE, THE, NATIONAL, ARCHIVES, SAID, THERE's, A, WHOLE, BUNCH, OF, STUFF, MISSING, THAT, IS, PRESIDENTIAL, RECORDS, THAT, WE, NEED, FOR, HISTORY, WE, NEED, FOR, THE, ARCHIVES., AND, IT's, ONLY, ONCE, THEY, REALIZED, THERE, WAS, CLASSIFIED, INFORMATION, IN THOSE, BOXES, THAT, THEY, INVOLVED, THE, DEPARTMENT, OF, JUSTICE., AND, THIS, COULD, HAVE, ALL, ENDED, VERY, SHORTLY, THEREAFTER, IF, THERE, HAD, BEEN, COOPERATION, AND, WE, SAID, THIS, OVER, AND, OVER, AGAIN., YOU, ME, ANDREW, WHO's, ON, I, KNOW, WITH, YOU, THAT, THIS, DIDN't, HAVE, TO, GO, DOWN, THIS, WAY., AND, I, REALLY, IN, SOME, STRANGE, WAY, ALMOST, PITY, ANYBODY, WHO, TAKES, A, CHANCE, TO, BE, MR., TRUMP's, LAWYER.